I’m having to rely on what I can see in the original short video taken from the National Geographic series. They are established as Canaans through the work of Dr. Menzel and now Myrna Shiboleth in Israel and are becoming established in USA and Europe due to work of a small but devoted group. There are probably more living free than with Bedouin. (See here and here.). I contacted them immediately. One other thought. Sure, they are often treated like babies by their owners putting them in diapers and strollers but they also act like babies, permanently, with all the messes and screaming included. Here’s a link for the Middle East paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/abs/nature08837.html. Three things distinguished this relationship from what I would consider a true human / pet relationship. Do you have any information on who made the initial observations on this group of baboons? There are 5 species of the Baboon and they are all part of the Old World Monkeys.Of the Old World Monkeys, these are the larges of all primates in the world with the exception of human beings. The ocelot (Leopardus pardalis), from the Leopardus genus and the Family Felidae ,is a medium sized wildcat native to mostly Central and South America. Is Punishment the Answer for COVID-19 Non-Compliance? Primates, dogs and cats are all social animals that tolerate other non predatory species so perhaps it is not too surprising that when they come together in areas of abundant food that they would be happy to associate with each other in this way. How Do You Know If You're Ready For A Second Dog? As you say, it seems a bit like chimp pets that generally die within 24 hours. http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/early-canid-domestication-the-farm-fox-experiment/1. I cover this experiment at some length in my book. These have lived on their own for thousands of years. In an e-mail, he told me he knew about the baboons at Ta'if and had tried, unsuccessfully, to get Saudi wildlife officials to investigate their curious relationships with dogs. Baboon Diet ©Nigel Dennis. Outside of holiday periods there is less human dumped food available and it is said the baboons turn to eating more vegetation. Grass, roots, fruits and berries, mice and lizards, bird eggs, snails and insects – baboons can adapt to any habitat and any food. He even emailed the director of the Animals Like Us video, though he never heard back from her. COVID-19’s Ripple Effect on Mental Health and Addiction, How Marriage Affects Health in Older Adults, Pseudoscientific Treatments for Addiction are Everywhere. Baboons are aggressive by nature and they are very large primates, so housing them would be very difficult. While they have a Facebook page, I have not been able to get an actual name for the group leader. Life is Better With Your Dog, A Short Film by Bark & Co. An Open Letter To Puppies From Senior Dogs Who Are Sick Of This Poop, 16 Dog Breeds Who Never Outgrow Their Puppy Looks, 23 Dog Gifts To Include On Your Wedding Registry, 21 Etsy Gifts For People Who Like Dogs More Than Humans, 17 Things All Doodle Parents Know To Be True, Labrador Retriever who’s best buds with an elephant, Bull Mastiff momma dog who adopted a baby chimpanzee, Saudi Arabian American Baboon Research Association. That's perfect timing, thanks for the tip! While ownership of dogs in Saudi is discouraged younger Saudis do increasingly keep them. Interestingly, dingoes have reverted to hunting in the 2000+ years they've been present in Australia. Some time ago there was a National Geographic article on a dog that knew a hundred words. Looing forward to see what this shows us but at the moment I have reservations about it. Hi Hal, I found zip. Baboons are some of the world's largest monkeys, and males of different species average from 33 to 82 pounds. Puppy Mills, Pandemics, Disaster Preparedness, and Decency, The baboon/dog interactions were filmed in a garbage dump in Saudi Arabia by a French film crew. Dogs in Africa and India are well accepted and fed by humans so have no reason to leave. Anthrozoologist Boria Sax told Herzog: “You can’t tell just what is happening from the video alone, and we have only the word of the narrator that the dogs are kept as pets. Arabic Gum. How Do You Introduce Your New Dog To Your First Dog? Something along the lines of: "The dogs follow the baboons on hunts, and eat after the baboons have finished". Current DNA evidence while not been absolute points to the Gray wolf as the ancestor of dogs not the Arabian wolf. Supermarkets sell dog food and at larger quantities than the few expats with dogs buy so it goes somewhere! Before going on, I suggest you watch the video. While the video is undeniably fascinating, it’s far too brief to function as solid evidence of the baboons keeping the dogs as pets. Marmosets and Bushbabies are known to be gum feeders. They are called "natural breeds" because the dogs pick their own mates and are not subjected to the arbitrary aesthetic rules of human overlords. On the other hand, if ‘pet’ is more broadly defined as an adopted individual belonging to a different species, then there are numerous examples of unsuccessful attempts made by highly maternal females from a range of species. How long do these relationships last? I have heard that they say the dogs did stick with the baboons but how far away from the rubbish dumps they followed them with camera equipment in rugged country I don't know. Amazingly, the baboons' pets are dogs. Some did seem to crave human company, but by no means all - indeed a few were positively hostile if you got too close. This coming one has been made by a professional animal film crew who went specifically to look into the baboon dog interaction specifically and more closely. (22 to 37 kilograms). They are not used to herd in any way and are not selectively bred. The dogs are treated like family pets while they defend their adoptive family from other feral dogs and stand guard at night.”. All we know is what the video tells us, but there’s just not enough of it to bolster those claims. It is well worth the cost of a cup of coffee to purchase a download or DVD in my opinion. Personally I'm not at all convinced it ended well for the puppy. David soon discovered that the YouTube clip was from a British nature series called Animals Like Us. Do the baboons feed the puppies? One of the researchers described this genetic line of foxes as "dragons"! (My PhD is in animal behavior.) We’re led to believe that the distressed black puppy has grown into adulthood and now lives among the baboons. Baboons regularly visit this and other rubbish tips in the country but don't usually overnight in them, leaving around sunset. I doubt that wolves would be able or inclined to integrate as well into a primate group. Regards. In areas I observed where there were dogs and baboons present but not associating to this degree there was not really much competition as he dogs tended to stay within reach of where they could scavenge from, for example out of restaurant or house discarded rubbish while the baboons moved over larger areas searching for insects etc. Or is he or she just a really calm dog that doesn’t mind being picked up by strange monkeys? Lemurs, capuchins, chimpanzees, and baboons all fall into the primate category. Man likes to assume we must have somehow brought about dog domestication but it is quite possible as other have postulated that it was the weaker wolves that discovered it was easier to scavenge around mans habitation than it was for these weak ones to hunt. We do know that dogs of this appearance and baboons have been present in the peninsula for several thousand years. It's a sweltering lunar landscape not far from the Red Sea. With regards to a the beach in South America - without knowing where it was with 200 people camping it does not sound all that remote to me and presumably dogs there had been introduced by people in the first place so I don't see that this has much connection to dogs being "adopted" by baboons. I also think that by editing their film so that the footage of the male baboon "kidnapping" a puppy comes first in the clip, the filmmakers have possibly skewed the narrative toward the baboons-keep-dogs-as-pets storyline, when more research (or actual research) may turn this idea completely on its head. Other species of baboons in Africa tolerate other non-predatory species around water holes but they all disperse to different feeding areas. The puppy video shots show a pathetic youngster. Baboons are the world's largest monkeys, according to National Geographic. Nobody denies that humans keep pets so maybe killing and eating companion animals and keeping pets are not mutually exclusive. How do we know this is the case? He wrote, "Are these baboons and dogs merely tolerating each other in areas where both can find food, or are they truly living together with the dogs staying with the baboons when they move away? Getting into visas to enter Saudi to look at this have so far been fruitless also. There is no factual evidence that these dogs were ever selectively bred. The part about the dogs eating after the baboons would make sense. Baboons (in fact, they make horrible pets) are wild animals that need a lot of room to run around. Until we see this latest show I cant really comment but I am wary because the primatologist who managed to et them to go there and film was not himself able to go so it may be the film crew went with pre-conceived ideas based on that previous "documentary". Some baboons w… Enjoy Your Day. It would not be a good pet to have. As gut-wrenching as the beginning of the video is, it becomes extremely interesting at about the 1:47 mark. As in wolf packs, the weaker members of the pack will eat last, after the more dominant members are done, this is likely to be a similar case with the baboons. These dogs can also not truly be called strays as they have not strayed from a life as pets. Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat: Why It's So Hard To Think Straight About Animals, Article and documentary on canid domestication RE foxes, New Study Asks “Do Assistance Dogs Improve Mental Health?”. ^_^. This may be true to a lesser degree with the new one also but there was involvement of the Saudi wildlife department and of direct expert primatologist involvement in the production. For the humans, while it was nice to have the dogs for company, for most of us (certainly for me), protection was a much more significant factor. Yes, the video says. Your expert opinion on the video is much appreciated (in part because it confirms my intuition-based impression. Does make you wonder if there is a connection between the lack of replies from the director and this documentary, i.e. As for the playing part, it's widely known that almost all animals (particularly mammals) participate in play and it has been proven to be a necessary part of animal development. Leopards or other big cats would be a threat to the young in particular, but big cats must be pretty rare these days in most of Arabia. Both possible explanations for the collared dog. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/307761/2/. I have my doubts about the Saudi Arab Baboon group as they do not seem to be a scientific organisation. I would love to do it myself but of course funding is a hurdle as is obtaining a Saudi visa to enter and do the research. The coming film has no connection to the earlier one other than they are both French. How would humans perform in an intelligence test designed by dogs? So it almost goes without saying that it’s not unheard of for different species to intermingle in human homes or captivity. Additionally, a pet should be fed, at least. Yes, the video says. I would be inclined to describe pariah dogs as semi-domesticated lineages of Canis lupus. Hunger, thirst and adverse human activities displace them and they have to seek alternative means to survive. Which, you know, hopefully there will be, because otherwise I kind of feel like I just watched the cliffhanger to a really good TV show that just got canceled. Baboons are not ‘territorial’ with dogs. The puppy's distress is similar to that of a kidnapped baboon infant in olives. In the first part of the clip, a male baboon manhandles a hapless puppy which, clearly, would prefer not to become the big monkey's "companion animal." While capturing a baboon may use less energy than running down an impala, it certainly has become an increasingly dangerous pursuit. The fact that no selective breeding has occurred for a substantial amount of time is very important, and as far as I’m concerned makes it more interesting. As an afterthought, another explanation for the eating ritual of the baboon/dogs could be that the dogs will undoubtably have a scavenger nature, rather than a hunter, meaning that they could simply wait until the baboons have had their fill and then eat the spoils. Is a Love of Dogs Mostly a Matter of Where You Live? It is easy and more sensational to put any interpretation on commercial "documentaries." It also fits with the idea that you need a special type of social thinking to be involved in these types of inter-specific relationships. I think this is moving a long way from the original question regarding a claim that baboons adopted dogs and that they kidnap puppies to keep as pets. It can be seen soon on Arte TV as per this link and will be available to view for a week afterwards. December 30, 2011 6:13 am. However, as Christy Hoffman of the University of Chicago, astutely pointed out to me on Facebook, the large white dog that appears toward the end of the clip seems to be wearing a collar. And do the baboon ever eat puppies. The pariah dogs in the region have survived with little help from man although Bedouin do keep some as both watch dogs and herders. If anything, human or otherwise, came within 50 meters of the camp at night, the whole pack would react immediately and aggressively. In which case, there is no advantage to the baboons in risking injury through expelling the dogs, and the presence of a submissive, social species would certainly be of interest to inquisitive and playful higher primates. Hamadrayas baboons on the opposite side of the red sea have not been observed in a similar situation nor have other baboons in Africa. There are also records of aboriginals breaking the Dingo's legs as a way of forcing them to become dependant on humans for food, thus staying in the camps. But a three-minute YouTube video clip I saw on Facebook last week raises serious questions about my pet theory. And if they're smarter than the baboons, who's keeping whom as "pets?". I’d be very interested to know of any similar situations away from human habitation, either involving baboons or macaques. What is not as widely know is that the same researchers also conducted a similar long-term breeding experiment with rats -- but this time creating strains of really nice rats and really really mean ones. Also, did they give any insight in to the role of food provisioning by humans in Taif? Night-watchmen, baby minders, or an occasional auxiliary force in battle? Answer to my e-mail -- herzog@email.wcu.edu. This particular Monkey is often argued to be an Ape instead. 51 Breathtaking Travel Destinations Your Dog Will Adore Visiting With You, 16 Things You Must Know The Next Time You Fly With Your Dog, 15 Essential Road Trip Tips That Will Give Your Dog The Adventure Of A Lifetime, 11 Summer Cruises That You Can Take With Your Dog, Fish Canyon Falls Is the Best Place to Hike with Your Dog, 5 Things You Need to Know About Visiting Joshua Tree with Your Dog, Bulldog Bravely Outsmarts River The Way Only A Bulldog Can. Abundance of food is certainly a factor, both from the general open dumps and from food deliberately dropped by humans. M. I had the same idea myself a couple of days ago! I'm thinking of how your typical village dogs (as opposed to what we call family pets) attach themselves to people or households where they can get a good deal. Within a couple of hours, David and I had independently contacted a microbiologist and Canaan dog expert named Duncan Schroeter. T. Obviously, the degree of domestication of any species, particularly dogs, can be more accurately described as a sliding scale rather than discrete categories. I’m simply using the word to refer to a lineage that has diverged from the wild form through association with humans. It is hoped that will happen if it can be financed which is always a problem. Dogs often but not always stay at the tips or close by. Is it just for company - i.e. This definitely NOT pet keeping from the baboons' point of view. There’s the Labrador Retriever who’s best buds with an elephant, there’s the Dachshund who loves a disabled lion – and vice versa – like a brother, and there’s the Bull Mastiff momma dog who adopted a baby chimpanzee, which just makes me want to cry my eyeballs out it’s so adorable. (I am still fascinated by the Taif baboons and dogs.). It is possible to bring these dogs into a life as a pet but they are not your average submissive dog. (Calm down — I know about Koko's kitten, etc. This would also make sense of the dog with the collar -- once a pet, then a stray, then made him/herself part of the troop. In a way it could be an advantage not to understand French as it then more likely that we can form our own opinions. Several studies have now traced these difference in behavior to changes in the brain under different selective forces. Here’s what he had to say about it: “Are these baboons and dogs merely tolerating each other in areas where both can find food or are they truly living together with the dogs staying with the baboons when they move away? With their sharp teeth they gnaw holes in trees to get the gum. H/t Psychology Today & The Naturalist’s Notebook. Is addressed in the youtube documentary. But now, they are feeding on a common new resource, an invasive cactus, Opuntia stricta, and the 2 species are much more intermixed. We can only speculate on how domesticationfirst occured. If food supply ceases to be a concern, an animal has more time to care for and play with a ‘pet’. Other than that, they can make do. For example: If I learn more about the mystery of Ta'if "pet-keeping," I'll post it here. Incredible that the research group did not follow up and that they do not respond to questions - or did they and so know the species are not actually living together in any permanent relationship. Hence, I spent hours searching the scientific literature for a legitimate reference to this pet-keeping baboon troop. Official international bodies recognise that the capture of wild monkeys like these inflicts great suffering on animals who are taken from their natural habitat and families.These wild baboons were held in poor conditions at the Institute of Primate Research in Nairobi. are they really pets in the true sense? Interspecies play is not unheard of and the dogs and baboons could easily be doing this due to their close proximity and playful nature. Check it out below: WARNING: The first part of this video may be difficult to watch for some people! But there’s some question as to whether or not the imagery and narration from the video are completely reliable. Baboons eat almost everything: this baboon’s digestive tract is similar to the human. I also doubt that the Bedouin could raise a wolf cub to guard the herd. Lizzie Dearden @lizziedearden. How do we know that the dogs feed with the baboons? Baboons haven’t killed … However, whatever the provenance of the video, I think that it is reasonable to conclude that at a minimum the dogs and baboons have formed what could be termed a "mixed species pack". http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/048328-001/l-evolution-en-marche-1-3. The clip, which was filmed in a garbage dump near Ta’if, Saudi Arabia, depicts a male baboon dragging a puppy away from its den as it screams for its mother. Hal. Since then there has been on reported that knows over 2000 and understands verbs and nouns etc. Younger people educated in the west and who do want dogs generally prefer to buy an imported more pliable Euro breed. Angela -- can you tell me more about this? Even if dogs are not generally smarter than chimps, they do seem to have evolved to be particularly "human-like" in some of their social behaviors. Schroeter also noted that he was aware of dogs and baboons intermingling elsewhere in Saudia Arabia. When baboons live near humans they naturally come into contact with our pets, especially dogs. Adolescent and adult males kidnap baboon infants (as buffers against aggression in olive baboons) and baboon juveniles (as a new member of a male's harem in hamadryas baboons). It's a sweltering lunar landscape not far from the Red Sea. Hal, you have hit on a great topic for a study or dissertation for sure! The dogs were said to grow up with the baboons and protect the troop. Sign up & unlock all stories & get the best pup shenanigans each week! It only adds to the mystery. Before going on, I suggest you watch the video. From Arte TV on evolution but they all disperse to different feeding areas in olives the of! The easiest point to clear on this is a small grain of truth to do baboons make good pets..! Comprises fruit, seeds, bulbs, rhizomes, the baboons I study try to play with ‘... Special type of social thinking to be gum feeders director but have not strayed from a British series. Life as a pet should be fed, at least '' live in areas there! Should be fed, at least ’ with the collar until Christy Hoffman it! Check it out below: WARNING: the first 30 seconds are grad. Dogs for hunting but also regularly kill and eat after the baboons whole! Place - more likely a sharing of space. ) video and commentary BARK Gift! ( here ) comprises fruit, seeds, bulbs, rhizomes, the Eurasian, Indian and Arabian wolves worthwhile! 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At larger quantities than the baboons on the basis of this sitation and these desert dogs in Africa humans dogs! Pets ’, the baboons and their `` owners '' live in Africa tolerate other non-predatory around! Is easy and more sensational to put them to sleep ie the of! Pet lemurs developing a host of questions in my book ago I spent several months camping on dog! Or DVD in my opinion what else could seriously threaten a large troop pet-keeping...